{"comments":{"844733":{"pb_id":"50300","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"844733","comment_id":"844733","member_id":"50300","comment":"I don\u0092t know if all the states are like this, but there appear to be glaring omissions in your list for the Indiana teams. Both Brebeuf Jesuit and Lawrence North aren\u0092t on your list at all and they appear to be closer to the level of Columbus North at #29 than they are to the trio of teams from Indiana you have at #85-#103. In the last race of their season last year, you can see that both those schools return much more than Cathedral, who you rank as your #85 team:
\nhttp:\/\/www.ihsaa.org...eufRegional.pdf<\/a>
\n
\nTwo of the Indiana preseason lists that are usually the best have the exact same top 4 in the same order (First one is opinion, second is computerized). Brebeuf Jesuit and Lawrence North are 3, 4 in both.
\nhttp:\/\/indianarunner...season-xc-teams<\/a>
\nhttp:\/\/www.inccstats...\/preseason.html<\/a>
\n
\n
\nIn addition, the teams had separate runners with the following track times, which are better than the 3rd, 4th, and 5th team from Indiana that you listed:
\nBrebeuf Jesuit: 9:06, 4:20, 4:21, 9:56
\nLawrence North: 9:38, 9:42, 4:16, 4:32 (The 4:32 guy was their #1 in XC last year, but had injury issues during track)
\n
\nI\u0092m just curious if you looked at these teams and if so what made you decide not to put them on your list. I would say that Fishers might belong above your #3, 4 and 5 Indiana schools too, but that one isn\u0092t as clear. I'm not saying these teams should be top 25 and maybe not even top 50, but I'm surprised they're not on your list at all.","date_added":"Aug 31st 2013, 12:43am","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":170093,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"TheINCrowd.","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=50300","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/TheInCrowd-.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1205804"},"844709":{"pb_id":"43715","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"844709","comment_id":"844709","member_id":"43715","comment":"

<\/a>WAfan, on , said:<\/p>

\nJust a little correction, Moussa has ran 1500-4:01.39 and 5k-15:14.4
<\/div><\/div>
\n
\nThanks. I probably missed some other track times for the O'Brien's Army Track Club this spring\/summer - but luckily, they are all longer distance types and their XC marks are probably almost all better than their track times.","date_added":"Aug 31st 2013, 12:10am","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":170093,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-43715.jpg","pb_title":"watchout","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_wally_id":"1073498"},"844708":{"pb_id":"43715","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"844708","comment_id":"844708","member_id":"43715","comment":"

<\/a>WAfan, on , said:<\/p>

\nAnd Carroll 4:12.53 for 1600.
<\/div><\/div>
\n
\nThat was actually what their coaches converted his 4:14.00 mile. You're right that I didn't include that in what he's done, though - I'll add it.","date_added":"Aug 31st 2013, 12:08am","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":170093,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-43715.jpg","pb_title":"watchout","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_wally_id":"1073498"},"844706":{"pb_id":"50301","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"844706","comment_id":"844706","member_id":"50301","comment":"And Carroll 4:12.53 for 1600.","date_added":"Aug 30th 2013, 11:58pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":170093,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"WAfan","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=50301","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/WAfan.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1205803"},"844704":{"pb_id":"50301","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"844704","comment_id":"844704","member_id":"50301","comment":"Just a little correction, Moussa has ran 1500-4:01.39 and 5k-15:14.4","date_added":"Aug 30th 2013, 11:53pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":170093,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"WAfan","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=50301","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/WAfan.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1205803"},"844687":{"pb_id":"43715","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"844687","comment_id":"844687","member_id":"43715","comment":"Here ya go, Steve -
\n
\nAgain, quick note: I didn't record all the track times for all the athletes out there to give them a complete profile if the performances I already had for them were better. So, some kids might have run track times and I don't have any track marks listed, or some might have run good miles or 2 miles that aren't included because other performances were already superior. Hopefully no typos as I re-type this...
\n
\n
\n
\nUS#1 Christian Brothers Academy NJ<\/strong>: (track times 1600m\/3200m unless noted)
\n1. Tom Rooney (12) 16:03 NJ Groups, 16:34.3 NXN-NE, 18:42 NXN; 4:17.25\/9:09.70<\/span>
\n2. Mike McClemens (12) 16:00 NJ Groups, 16:18.8 NXN-NE<\/span>, 18:23 NXN; 4:14.29\/9:13.50
\n3. Blaise Ferro (10) 17:14.0 NXN-NE; 4:23.70\/9:13.26<\/span>
\n4. Josh Kruppa (11) 16:44.6 NXN-NE, 18:16 NXN<\/span>; 4:33.26\/9:26.13
\n5. Francis Bogan (12) 16:06 NJ Groups<\/span>, 17:14.2 NXN-NE, 18:47 NXN; 4:44.27\/9:19.29
\n
\nUS#2 Gig Harbor WA<\/strong>: (track times 1600m\/3200m unless noted)
\n1. Wolfgang Beck (12) 15:16.3 WA State<\/span>, 16:15.4 NXN-NW; 4:15.94\/9:12.07 and 4:02.90 1500m\/8:42.31 3k
\n2. Tristan Peloquin (11) 16:08.9 WA State, 16:32.7 NXN-NW; 4:17.32\/9:09.27<\/span> and 4:07.55 1500m
\n3. Mahmoud Moussa (12) 15:41.9 CA State, 18:06 NXN<\/span>; 4:23.40y\/4:01.39 1500m and 15:14.4? 5k
\n4. Logan Carroll (12) 15:38.6 WA State<\/span>, 16:21.6 NXN-NW; 4:17.65 and 4:07.66 1500m\/4:14.00y
\n5. Jordan Oldenburg (12) 16:04.5 WA State<\/span>, 16:50.9 NXN-NW, 4:22.34 and 4:18.54 1500m
\n
\nUS#3 American Fork UT<\/strong>: (track times 1600m\/3200m unless noted; track times represent altitude adjustment)
\n1. Connor McMillan (12) 15:30.7 UT State, 15:09.32 NXN-SW, 17:42 NXN<\/span>; 4:22.99\/9:08.5
\n2. Zac Jacklin (11) 15:45.1 UT State, 15:21.83 NXN-SW, 18:01 NXN<\/span>; 4:33.61\/9:20.5
\n3. Caleb Thompson (12) 16:07.6 UT State, 15:25.55 NXN-SW<\/span>, 18:22 NXN; 4:33.61
\n4. Spencer Herzog (12) 16:09.3 UT State, 15:42.90 NXN-SW<\/span>; 18:54 NXN; No track info
\n5. Tyler Bell (12) 16:41.3 UT State, 15:59.61 NXN-SW, 18:44 NXN<\/span>; No track info
\n
\nUS#4 Arcadia CA<\/strong>: (track times 1600m\/3200m unless noted)
\n1. Estevan De La Rosa (12) 14:01 CIF-SS, 15:04.9 CA State, 17:09 NXN<\/span>; 3:59.06 1500m and 14:50.36 5k
\n2. Phillip Rocha (10) 14:19 CIF-SS, 15:26.8 CA State<\/span>, 18:09 NXN; 4:17.99\/9:17.42 and 4:15.06 1500m\/4:20.51y
\n3. Josue Gonzalez (12) 15:39.6 CA State<\/span>, 18:25 NXN; 4:17.16 1500m
\n4. Jarrick Wenslow (12) 14:57 CIF-SS, 15:56.2 CA State<\/span>, 19:15 NXN; 4:17.83 1500m\/4:30.50y
\n5. Bryan Ngo (12) 14:45 CIF-SS<\/span>, 16:04.7 CA State, 19:26 NXN; No track info
\n
\nUS#5 West Chester Henderson PA<\/strong>: (track times 1600m\/3200m unless noted)
\n1. Tony Russell (12) 15:45 PA State, 15:51.7 NXN-NE<\/span>, 18:49 NXN; 4:14.20\/9:07.08 and 4:14.52y\/8:38.01 3k
\n2. Reiny Barchet (12) 16:25 PA State, 15:55.8 NXN-NE<\/span>, 17:44 NXN<\/span>; 4:24.70\/9:08.97 and 4:29.01y\/8:51.01 3k
\n3. Alex Knapp (11) 16:51 PA State, 16:36.9 NXN-NE<\/span>, 19:15 NXN; 4:28.38\/9:45.23 and 4:37.25y
\n4. Seamus Collins (12) 16:40 PA State, 17:15.8 NXN-NE, 19:44 NXN; 4:24.46\/9:26.79<\/span> and 8:59.15 3k
\n5\/6. Eric Stratman (12) 16:50 PA State, 16:50.7 NXN-NE, 19:26 NXN; 4:19.84\/9:28.22<\/span> and 9:03.25
\n5\/6. Kevin Moy (12) 4:16.01<\/span>\/9:34.12
\n
\nUS#6 North Central WA<\/strong>: (track times 1600m\/3200m unless noted)
\n1. Tanner Anderson (11) 15:34.8 WA State, 15:48.9 NXN-NW, 17:42 NXN<\/span>; 4:14.30\/9:01.79
\n2. Kai Wilmot (12) 17:46 NXN<\/span>; 4:20.74\/9:11.06 and 9:09.58yi
\n3. Oliver Reed (12) 15:47.6 WA State<\/span>, 16:13.1 NXN-NW, 18:42 NXN; 4:24.68\/10:08.91
\n4. Justin Janke (10) 18:09.3 NXN-NW; 4:30.23\/9:36.72<\/span>
\n5. Andrew Vandine (11) 17:24.3 NXN-NW; 4:22.45<\/span>\/9:50.54
\n
\nUS#7 Long Beach Poly CA<\/strong>: (track times 1600m\/3200m unless noted)
\n1. Miguel Bautista (12) 14:30 CIF-SS, 15:25.8 CA State<\/span>; 4:22.63\/9:16.93 and 8:43.16 3k
\n2. Jovani Gamboa (12) 14:40 CIF-SS, 15:46.8 CA State<\/span>; 4:34.47
\n3. Christian Vazquez (12) 14:43 CIF-SS, 15:48.4 CA State<\/span>; 4:28.97\/9:50.81
\n4. Anthony Palazzo (11) 14:41 CIF-SS, 15:49.5 CA State<\/span>; 4:33.62\/9:39.12
\n5. Colby Penn (10) 14:57 CIF-SS<\/span>, 16:29.9 CA State; 4:42.47\/9:59.62
\n
\n
\n
\n
\nEDIT: Underlined performances are the ones they are ranked on (their best performances, weighted towards longer races and in particular XC)","date_added":"Aug 30th 2013, 10:41pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":170093,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-43715.jpg","pb_title":"watchout","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_wally_id":"1073498"},"844589":{"pb_id":"42418","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"844589","comment_id":"844589","member_id":"42418","comment":"Rob,
\nI would love to see, if and as you have time, some detail as to why you ranked the top teams as you did. Of course, the lists include what they did last year, but I'd love to see what they're returning (with a few track creds). If this is posted elsewhere, let me\/us know!
\nGreat job","date_added":"Aug 30th 2013, 4:56pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":170093,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-42418.jpeg","pb_title":"SteveU","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=42418","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/SteveU.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1030740"},"844581":{"pb_id":"4588","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"844581","comment_id":"844581","member_id":"4588","comment":"
\nWOW! I cannot imagine the amount of work that went into this! Excellent job! Very interesting to read and it should be a fun season!
<\/div><\/div>
\nRob is the master!","date_added":"Aug 30th 2013, 2:58pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":170093,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-4588.jpg","pb_title":"Scott Joerger","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=4588","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/ScottJoerger.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"388"},"844574":{"pb_id":"45238","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"844574","comment_id":"844574","member_id":"45238","comment":"WOW! I cannot imagine the amount of work that went into this! Excellent job! Very interesting to read and it should be a fun season!","date_added":"Aug 30th 2013, 1:20pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":170093,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-45238.jpg","pb_title":"distancemulti68","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=45238","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/profile.php?member_id=45238","pb_wally_id":"1105267"},"844329":{"pb_id":"45238","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"844329","comment_id":"844329","member_id":"45238","comment":"

<\/a>watchout, on , said:<\/p>

\nI sent them in a few hours ago, but I don't think they will be published until tomorrow. Sorry :(
<\/div><\/div>
\n
\nQuite alright! I'm very excited to see the complete list! Great job, BTW!!!","date_added":"Aug 30th 2013, 2:23am","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":170093,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-45238.jpg","pb_title":"distancemulti68","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=45238","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/profile.php?member_id=45238","pb_wally_id":"1105267"},"844304":{"pb_id":"43715","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"844304","comment_id":"844304","member_id":"43715","comment":"

<\/a>distancemulti68, on , said:<\/p>

\nWhere's the top 40!? C'mon the suspense is killing me!!!
<\/div><\/div>
\n
\nI sent them in a few hours ago, but I don't think they will be published until tomorrow. Sorry :(","date_added":"Aug 29th 2013, 10:57pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":170093,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-43715.jpg","pb_title":"watchout","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_wally_id":"1073498"},"844302":{"pb_id":"45238","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"844302","comment_id":"844302","member_id":"45238","comment":"Where's the top 40!? C'mon the suspense is killing me!!!","date_added":"Aug 29th 2013, 10:45pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":170093,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-45238.jpg","pb_title":"distancemulti68","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=45238","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/profile.php?member_id=45238","pb_wally_id":"1105267"},"843348":{"pb_id":"3026","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"843348","comment_id":"843348","member_id":"3026","comment":"

<\/a>watchout, on , said:<\/p>

\nWell, David, I'll go ahead and help explain the differences to you (where I can):
\n
\nWest Windsor-Plainsboro South NJ - Not sure why it's so shocking - 9:56.83\/10:02.75 for a #4\/5 isn't exactly a "THIS TEAM MUST BE TOP 25 IN THE NATION!!" caliber. It's not like they're far off of the top 25 (about 70 points in a typical NXN Nationals field)
\n
<\/div><\/div>
\n
\nI was just about to type that same basic sentence. Without knowing any other details other than 4\/5 being 10:00 type guys, I wouldn't ever think they were a top 25 type time.","date_added":"Aug 26th 2013, 8:57pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":{"wally_id":"35","email_settings":"7168","email":"chrisnickinson@gmail.com","address":"chrisnickinson","gender":"m","member_id":"3026","member_name":"Chris Nickinson","avatar_location":"av-3026.jpg","avatar_type":"upload","avatar":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-3026.jpg"},"can_delete":false,"item_id":170093,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-3026.jpg","pb_title":"Chris Nickinson","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=3026","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/chrisnickinson.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"35"},"843338":{"pb_id":"43715","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"843338","comment_id":"843338","member_id":"43715","comment":"Well, David, I'll go ahead and help explain the differences to you (where I can):
\n
\nSaratoga Springs NY - In your rankings, you missed on the (published) fact that one of their returning scorers transferred to Ohio. And it seems you haven't discovered that yet.
\n
\nWest Windsor-Plainsboro South NJ - Not sure why it's so shocking - 9:56.83\/10:02.75 for a #4\/5 isn't exactly a "THIS TEAM MUST BE TOP 25 IN THE NATION!!" caliber. It's not like they're far off of the top 25 (about 70 points in a typical NXN Nationals field)
\n
\nCollege Park TX - likely the Texas #1? How do you figure that one? Southlake Carroll returns a few guys, and had some quality depth and was light years ahead last year (and for a few years before that). The Woodlands returns a few guys, and had great depth (as always); Marcus returned four from a team that beat College Park at NXN-South and finished close to them at Texas state. It's not like there is a big gap between those teams though - scores range from 104-117 in the NXN-South Top-22 scoring, and 252-329 in the typical NXN Nationals field scoring.
\n
\nFayetteville-Manlius NY - I ranked them based on what they have returning, not their program's prowess. The returning times you just posted goes a long way towards describing that (though the three runners they have returning from their XC varsity squad were better in XC, as to be expected from FM). I wouldn't be surprised if they move up notably during the course of the season (in fact, I kind of expect it).
\n
\nLaramie WY - I would have thought you would have liked that one, given that it's a team from a state that doesn't generally get much recognition. Or maybe you're just upset that you haven't already hyped them? They return everyone from their state championship squad, and had altitude-adjusted 3200m times of (roughly) 9:10, 9:40, 9:42, 9:50 from their top 4, with their #5 belonging right with their #4 based on XC last year. Granted, it's a sizable drop off to their #6, and they probably won't see much competition during the season (Wyoming is pretty isolated), but that doesn't take away from the caliber of athletes they have returning.
\n
\n
\nEDIT: Oops, you deleted your post while I was typing up my response... I guess you withdraw your complaints?","date_added":"Aug 26th 2013, 8:35pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":170093,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-43715.jpg","pb_title":"watchout","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/profile.php?member_id=43715","pb_wally_id":"1073498"},"843313":{"pb_id":"44418","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"843313","comment_id":"843313","member_id":"44418","comment":"The next batch, 41-80 for the national boys Top 120 is now up!","date_added":"Aug 26th 2013, 7:20pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":{"wally_id":"1082747","email_settings":"4294967295","email":"dbind4@aol.com","address":"DougB","gender":"u","member_id":"44418","member_name":"DougB","avatar_location":"av-44418.jpg","avatar_type":"upload","avatar":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg"},"can_delete":false,"item_id":170093,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg","pb_title":"DougB","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=44418","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/DougB.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1082747"},"842060":{"pb_id":"1111","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"842060","comment_id":"842060","member_id":"1111","comment":"Watchout, great work putting together rankings 120 deep! Very impressive. I can't wait to see the rest of 'em.","date_added":"Aug 21st 2013, 3:19am","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":170093,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-1111.jpg","pb_title":"Scott Bush","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=1111","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/Scott-Bush.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"624"},"841842":{"pb_id":"5929","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"841842","comment_id":"841842","member_id":"5929","comment":"Great to see Coach Shaw's Boys from Miami Sunset crack the top 120 at #118. They had a summer excursion to the Ocala National Forest for summer mileage recently and will be led by a formidable 1-2 punch up front led by Kenny Castro (Senior) and Nick Diaz (Junior) and the rest of the team is pretty darn solid as well.","date_added":"Aug 20th 2013, 1:31am","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":170093,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-5929.png","pb_title":"DrBob","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=5929","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/DrBobDP.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"2006"}},"last_id":"841842","url":"comments.php?item_type=news&item_id=170093&item_url=gprofile.php?mgroup_id=44531"}

<\/a>distancemulti68, on , said:<\/p>